Posts by D wiltshire

57

God//Jesus and Quantum Uncertainty

by SYN in

another day, another serious post.

breaking form from my recent spate of humour, i've been doing a lot of thinking.

theological thinking, to be specific.

D wiltshire

Funky,

Of course the universe can be measured. Not accurately, perhaps but its size, age and mass can be estimated. And the effects of any part of the universe known to exist can be measured. Parts of the universe not known to exist can be tested for. It's the fact that it exists and affects us that makes it measurable.

I think that Max Planck said that we can never fully understand the universe is because we are part of it. Quantum physics has uncertainty built into it because we are limited to our ability know.

As for man understanding and measuring the universe these are just mathematical estimations that can and will be adjusted. To accurately know and measure the universe or even little parts of it is an impossiblity. Clasical physics used to think that they would soon have all the answers, but then Einstien came on the seen with "relativity" and changed forever our view of the world. Absolute knowledge of the universe or measurement is an impossiblity. Even Hawkings hope for "theory of everything" is a misnomer, that is merely mathimatical with no way of testing, because we are part of the universe and can never duplicate by means of experiment, or test to prove a theory of everything when one is finally made. We can only measure relatively never accurately, we can only estimate.

If we could some how climb out of the physical universe then perhaps we could measure it.

11

warning a sister with children that she's dating a pedophile

by Brandy5 in

i met an ex je that was da'ed for telling a sister that the man she was dating was convicted in sacramento ca for child molestation about ten yearss prior.

she use to live in the same city and had cut the article out of the paper because this man was a jw.

his first wife divorced him & he went to prison.

D wiltshire

Brandy,

That's a interesting story. Thanks for sharing it.

The JW position on gossip and slander is very lopsided to say the least. If a JW tells slandereous lies about a person that left the Organization it is perfectly alright. They can tell slandereous lies about members of other religions, and in fact about all kinds of people that are "not" JW's and do so with impunity, sometimes they are rewarded if the slandereous lies they tell encourage the friends to stick to the Organization. Surely if the JWs want to be truly righteous in their strict application of strong sanctions against gossip and slander then they need to be unbiased in what they consider to be violations.

Of coarse we know that would never work for them.

126

DNA and Man's origin

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

.

i think as time goes on and dna gets understood better and better it will be imposible for fundamental christians to defend thier position against evolution.

kind of like the catholic church going against galileio saying the "earth is not the center of the universe".. "eventually"(maybe not now) to fight against the evidence makes you look very stupid and under heavy mind control.. don't get me wrong i beleive there is a god, and i think he used "gradualism" to create the universe and life, i even feel the first 2 chapter of genesis are discribing a very long drawn out process that took just as evolutionist are telling us, billions of years till finally man appears.. eventually the wt is going to have to change its understanding of genesis to even stay credible..

D wiltshire

Jerry,

From what I have read about Galileio, and his troubles with the Catholic church, i think your take on it may be misleading.

DNA as mentioned previously has shown our links to the chimpanzee since it has 98% the same DNA as humans. Even before they could map DNA certain complicated protiens manufactured by us and the chimps showed them to be close relatives on the evolutionary tree.

Why is impossible to believe that God invented evolution, as his way to make life with all its diversity. Since the material universe has been evolving to its present form by means of laws that govern matter and energy balanced just right to cause this evolution to take place in an orderly way, why is is concidered not God's way when it comes to creature life. Clearly there is a similar patern here. The way I see it intelligent design is manifest in this gradualistic way of creating.

126

DNA and Man's origin

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

.

i think as time goes on and dna gets understood better and better it will be imposible for fundamental christians to defend thier position against evolution.

kind of like the catholic church going against galileio saying the "earth is not the center of the universe".. "eventually"(maybe not now) to fight against the evidence makes you look very stupid and under heavy mind control.. don't get me wrong i beleive there is a god, and i think he used "gradualism" to create the universe and life, i even feel the first 2 chapter of genesis are discribing a very long drawn out process that took just as evolutionist are telling us, billions of years till finally man appears.. eventually the wt is going to have to change its understanding of genesis to even stay credible..

D wiltshire

Heres a good link for an alternative Genesis explanation

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1999/PSCF12-99Held.html

Jack,

How do you reconcile any of those beliefs with evolution?
Jesus - what was he needed for?
Was there Adamic sin?
Is there a Judgement day?
Is there immortality?

Jack I cant harmonize everything with evolution, not yet anyway. Your first one about Jesus I think he died for us and not to cancel Adams sin although I have to admit I dont have a clear understanding of why the ransom was needed, at least not to my satisfaction.

#2 I believed Adam sinned but that he was not the first man, and he didnt pass on sin to the human race for they were sinner long before Adam came to be. Perhaps he was the first man God communed with and he was being used by God in some good way even though he sinned. I believe that the future, past and present are all the same before God and that he fore knows everything if you can call it that. So to say the least this account is very puzzling to me.

#3 I believe there will be a Judgment Day but that it will be very individualized not based on what religion you joined but more about what you did and why you did it.

#4 Yes I believe in immortality, but not of our space/time.

126

DNA and Man's origin

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

.

i think as time goes on and dna gets understood better and better it will be imposible for fundamental christians to defend thier position against evolution.

kind of like the catholic church going against galileio saying the "earth is not the center of the universe".. "eventually"(maybe not now) to fight against the evidence makes you look very stupid and under heavy mind control.. don't get me wrong i beleive there is a god, and i think he used "gradualism" to create the universe and life, i even feel the first 2 chapter of genesis are discribing a very long drawn out process that took just as evolutionist are telling us, billions of years till finally man appears.. eventually the wt is going to have to change its understanding of genesis to even stay credible..

D wiltshire

Alan,

I basically agree with what science is bringing out about man's evolution, I see no reason not to.

How the Adam and Eve story -- if it's historical in any sense -- fits in, I have no idea. The poster aChristian has some ideas on this, and I have to admit that they're consistent with science and with a free interpretation of Genesis.

It is interesting that after Cain murdered his brother and was banished from his family's residence to become a wanderer, that he was afraid of people finding him and killing him Genesis 4:14.

This must clearly indicate that Adam was not the first man for Cain was Adams first born. If Adam was the first man, then at Cain's banishment who were these people that Cain was afraid of? They couldn't be Adam offspring.

I think we need to take into account the fact that all languages change and it is a very difficult to translate accurately such an ancient book. Hebrew at one time went into disuse which makes it even harder to translate. And any translation of Genesis is likely to have the preconcieved ideas of the translator influencing his rendition.

126

DNA and Man's origin

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

.

i think as time goes on and dna gets understood better and better it will be imposible for fundamental christians to defend thier position against evolution.

kind of like the catholic church going against galileio saying the "earth is not the center of the universe".. "eventually"(maybe not now) to fight against the evidence makes you look very stupid and under heavy mind control.. don't get me wrong i beleive there is a god, and i think he used "gradualism" to create the universe and life, i even feel the first 2 chapter of genesis are discribing a very long drawn out process that took just as evolutionist are telling us, billions of years till finally man appears.. eventually the wt is going to have to change its understanding of genesis to even stay credible..

D wiltshire

Pat,

Why argue? Both sides have uncertainty. You pick one according to what seems the most correct to you.

If someone makes a valid point use it, no one can have all the right answers. Some may like to think they have all the right answers, but the best we can do is to try and get the important ones right,"if possible".

I haven't seen proof enough to give up on the Bible. But I do see alot of dogmatic view points on both sides that don't have enough proof to justify such a stance. The world is too complicated for me to or anyone else to be sure they are 100% right.

126

DNA and Man's origin

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

.

i think as time goes on and dna gets understood better and better it will be imposible for fundamental christians to defend thier position against evolution.

kind of like the catholic church going against galileio saying the "earth is not the center of the universe".. "eventually"(maybe not now) to fight against the evidence makes you look very stupid and under heavy mind control.. don't get me wrong i beleive there is a god, and i think he used "gradualism" to create the universe and life, i even feel the first 2 chapter of genesis are discribing a very long drawn out process that took just as evolutionist are telling us, billions of years till finally man appears.. eventually the wt is going to have to change its understanding of genesis to even stay credible..

D wiltshire

Funky,

Well I guess that is your interpretation of Genesis.

I personally think that a ancient documents like this is very hard to translate correctly, let alone interpret its meaning. At best all are best guesses, some being more correct than others.

Myself personally, I think a closer look at this, reflects what we would expect from a superiour being telling very primative man about his origins. Using a very limited (at that time) language.

48

If Time were running in reverse would we know it?

by D wiltshire in

if "time" is running backwards i dont see how that we would ever know, perhaps some clever physicist could devise an experiment to find out for sure.. some theoreticians have suggested the reason the arrow of time runs from past to future is tied intimately to the expansion of space.

since einstein special theory of relativity we have come to see that "time", space and speed are all relative.

we now more correctly speak of "space-time" instead of just space.

D wiltshire

rs,

The law of cause and effect, is just taken as a given, it is not something that can be explained as why it exist at present.

The fact that the universe has logical laws baffles many physicist for there is no appearent reason for such order. Some think this order may have a supernatural origin.

48

If Time were running in reverse would we know it?

by D wiltshire in

if "time" is running backwards i dont see how that we would ever know, perhaps some clever physicist could devise an experiment to find out for sure.. some theoreticians have suggested the reason the arrow of time runs from past to future is tied intimately to the expansion of space.

since einstein special theory of relativity we have come to see that "time", space and speed are all relative.

we now more correctly speak of "space-time" instead of just space.

D wiltshire

Pete,

That's a very interesting article, they make some astonding claims.

It will be intresting to here what the rest of the scientific comunity has to say about this extaordinary claim. Seems a little to hard to believe but let see what happens.

48

If Time were running in reverse would we know it?

by D wiltshire in

if "time" is running backwards i dont see how that we would ever know, perhaps some clever physicist could devise an experiment to find out for sure.. some theoreticians have suggested the reason the arrow of time runs from past to future is tied intimately to the expansion of space.

since einstein special theory of relativity we have come to see that "time", space and speed are all relative.

we now more correctly speak of "space-time" instead of just space.

D wiltshire

Pete,

Here's a link that may be discussing what you heard about (hot) dark matter.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/missing_matter_030212.html

It uses words like "seems" .